Ashley Campbell’s Double Lung Transplant Fund

Ashley Campbell’s Double Lung Transplant Fund

The following was posted over at the Orange Papers forum, where I went for a rare, brief visit and is a shout-out from Mark who was one of the people who runs the excellent Stinkin Thinkin site, which he says is going to return soon. Unfortunately the thread got derailed a bit over there so I have copied his comment and a link here. It looks like a very worthwhile cause and a few people from the OP forum have contributed. So if you find my site via the wordpress or Google plus community, you may also find this is a worthy cause to support.

I think it is important to push these types of messages on our sites whenever possible. The religious types often try to give the impression that they are the only people who care about people, who are having a hard time in life. In reality, I often find the opposite. Many religious types actually hold back help, with their dogma and anti science stance. They have a network and infrastructure that could do so much good, yet they give more importance to  prayer and an old book, than giving others practical help.



Hello, Everyone.

It’s Mark from the Stinkin’ Thinkin’ blog.

I’ve been following the goings-on in this forum on and off again for the past couple of years. More so lately because of Preachergate, which has supplanted the time I once allotted to reality tv viewing. As a non-practicing Pastafarian, I don’t really have a dog in this atheist vs fundie fight, other than to say that it’s counterproductive to allow a batshit crazy street preacher so much air. As delusional and self-absorbed as this guy is, some of you are allowing him to live rent free in your head. Quit doing that, and get on about doing what His Noodleness put you on this Earth to do: tear the ass out of AA.

Ilse and I are bringing back ST in a new incarnation, which I hope is good news. The bad news is that because it is currently under construction, we don’t have a platform to post any sort of information, and I was hoping you folks could help with something we would otherwise post to our blog, which still gets an amazing amount of traffic, with some days being higher than when we were posting on a daily basis. I’m sure this is partly due to people finding this place and trackbacking from links of our old posts, cartoons and such from here and in Orange’s letter section. Thanks for that!

Anyway, Seth Andrews over at The Thinking Atheist has posted a video podcast urging donations for Ashley Campbell, a 21-year-old with cystic fibrosis in need of a lung transplant. I thought this would be a good way for the readership of our blog and this forum to demonstrate that what “giving back” and charity truly means, which is NOT proselytizing and converting people to a belief system. So many of us are godless — or at the very least of the knowledge that prayers for a cystic fibrosis cure go as unanswered as they do for a cure for alcohol dependency; and that real medicine requires real doctors, real nurses, real people to make a difference. I thought an appeal to the same people who have generously donated to keep our blog and Monica’s film project afloat, might have something left to offer this girl. Every dollar, every post and like to Facebook helps, if that is all you can give. The links are below.

I hope to see you all on our blog soon, so stay tuned!

Thanks, all…and Merry Christmas!


The original post was here.


Commenting area

  1. Sounds like a noble cause. As far as Marks comments saying ” — or at the very least of the knowledge that prayers for a cystic fibrosis cure go as unanswered as they do for a cure for alcohol dependency; and that real medicine requires real doctors, real nurses, real people to make a difference.” I think people who have been harmed by AA’s made up religion might be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Miracles do happen all the time, prayer imho can be powerful- and for some at least an adjunct to scientific based treatment. How many people pray before surgery? Plenty!

    Anyway I look forward to seeing the stinkin thinkin website back up so we have more ways to get the word out.

    I do agree that some have got off track at the OP about exposing AA for the corrupt Organization that it is. Religious and non religious people have something to offer in this important cause!

  2. I’m actually an Atheist and never pray but many do and find comfort in it. Praying is a good thing for those with faith but can cause problems for those without.The way the religious idea has been used by AA has caused a lot of confusion. Many who do well in AA are Christians and use the traditional God. Others do convert, but I actually saw a group turn on a member who stated he was going to simply go to church rather than go to AA. He was told he would not stay sober but this was not the case when I last saw him.
    Many people have been harmed by religion that try AA, especially those from an Irish Catholic background and again, the ideas of AA can cause conflict. There is an obvious link with the church and many meetings are held in churches yet AA states it is not religious and is then seen by some in the church as a bad thing. Others feel the non drinking message is more important.
    The whole thing has created a mess and you then have the people who become evangelical about the steps and become sort of preachers who are desperate to pass the steps on.
    I believe there are good and bad people who either believe or don’t . The majority who are active in churches tend to lead good lives and be valuable to a community but again there are a few who abuse their position. The church is very clear about what it is, like all religions, but AA will try to make out AA is something else to try and attract more members.
    I find a lot of what happens on the Orange papers forum to be quite dangerous because it creates a really poor image of people who have walked from the rooms. I know of people in AA who have gone there to laugh at the people there. They use it as example of dry drunks. There have been major problems with trolls in the past and we both got attacked on there. I tried to keep my old forum well away from the problems there but it got dragged down and I stopped it because I realised people were getting dragged into an unhealthy Orange Papers skype group where people would discuss other people and also disregard the handles that people use. They were giving out some of the trolls phone numbers which was inflaming the situation so I pulled the forum which pissed a lot of people off. There was another issue with stuff being posted on the orange forum which was seen by somebody who followed a link there and thought that there privacy was at risk. They were very upset. I had to deal with that at the same time.

    I do feel that people who are speaking out against AA have to present a pretty clean image if they are going to be taken seriously. Many are working hard, including yourself to provide sites that can warn people of problems they may face. Massive is also doing really great things, and there are others. The stinkin Thinkin crowd were great because of the humour and the way the site owners kept the comments on the threads going in a sensible direction by commenting on the threads. Orange does not do this and rarely comments. I doubt he is interested that much by the forum and concentrates on the main site. The problem is that hardly any of the commenting on the forum relates in any way to the main site which is what attracted people. It has become the mirror image of AA with very few old timers and a bunch of new people. Most of the people who wrote good posts have gone. Many who are there have not really moved on from AA. They are still dominated by it, but instead of going to meetings they talk about them on the op, and are often trying to justify their own actions to themselves. They like to blame any faliure in recovery on AA, which is probably not completely true. Once a site is allowed to slip and is unmoderated it is pretty hard to get it back. I have nothing against many of the people there including JR and Avo but any post they make just gets lost. I have only gone on the site a few times this year and had a look over Xmas and see that you now have Jim arguing with some of the others. I have no idea how any of that started but I do know that anyone that a certain group does not know will be treated like a troll over there, which happened to a friend of mine who left after a few days. If you don’t agree with somebody on a forum make a point and then stand back and let a few others in. It is often more powerful that way and you get taken seriously. The attacking response comes from the way things got out of hand with the thick Texan woman and that has become the norm over there. The op does attract quite a few people,although nothing like the numbers that some claim with the useless webalizer stats and would do really well if the forum was more attractive to the majority. This is a shame and really hope that the members don’t treat stinkin Thinkin in the same way when it comes back as that site had a lot of commenting before and it would be a shame if the threads got derailed. A lot of hard work would go to waste.
    I really have not read much of the Jim stuff and so can’t really form an opinion but I agree that AA should change to fit today and I would agree that AA is kind of warped Christianity that claims it is not and can see why a preacher would not like this.
    I did not like AA and will carry on stating why and what else I have done to kick my addiction but I did meet some people who really liked it but who were not trying to ram the steps down everyone’s throats. For that reason I am no longer totally anti AA. I also think it gives people some fellowship in their early days and there is nowhere else for many to go. I would rather see people in a better type of group but there is nothing large at the moment . Anyway I’m rambling away using siri to dictate this and have to go but I will revisit the whole topic soon and also want to talk about how many recovery groups including online groups can actually hold people back in recovery.

  3. I find it sad that the OP forum does reflect more of the main website. In fact it seems when people actually do try and bring things up that is related to addiction or AA, people seem to prefer to rather argue and attack others. Jim the preacher has brought up some great points about the fact that AA is heretical in nature and goes against Christian principles. If people would of just let Jim expose AA his way and not have been blasphemous from the beginning things would be totally different. Old time anti AAers turned on me viciously as well because of my support of Jim exposing AA in Drug Courts and to churches themselves. They became worse than trolls. I have to say if there was ever an argument for dry drunks- the OP forum is a good example.

    I really liked the original Recovery from Recovery site. I could tell so much work went into it. But many OP members that came over to the site still had boundary issues, and even though I had warned people about certain trolls they wanted to play with fire and people got burned.

    I am glad to see this site back up and running. We need more websites that people can go to that are safe. Focusing on options outside of AA is a wise and helpful game plan. I do think people need to vent when leaving AA, but then they also need to find solutions to stay off of drugs or alcohol. Maybe down the road even learn to moderate.

  4. I meant to say that I wish the OP forum DID reflect the main site where Orange has written all of his articles. At this point and time it does a poor job of reflecting the main site. Moderation is important on any site!

  5. I think that you need quite a large community from a blog before you can run a successful forum. If you have about 100 members who comment frequently then you will get less of the louder members taking over. The forum that was here and the orange forum only has about 15 people who comment a lot and so that leads to people taking sides on minor issues that get blown out of all proportion. If you add trolling to the mix then you will get an aggressive site. I just had a look here and my first impression was that this could be quite good. They have all types of books for sale, those like the rational recovery book to one talking about AA. They again seem to promote a healthy lifestyle, I’m busy now but will drop back in a few days to read a bit more.

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